(A/n : This is the second part of the debate)

Still don't believe me? Here's an additional one from the Official Dragonball Website - that's also approved by Toriyama btw - which also states that Dragonball's timelines follow Many Worlds Interpretation Theory:

This was blatantly obvious from the basis of MWI Theory that states that separate parallel timelines can happen through the choices and decisions people make so as far we've seen the formation of not one but five out of an untold amount of timelines :

- The First Timeline being Future Trunks' timeline.

- The Second Timeline being created from Future Trunks giving the Heart Medicine to Goku

- The Third Timeline being created from Future Trunks being killed by Cell in the Future.

- The Fourth Timeline being created when Trunks killed imperfect Cell in the Future.

- The Fifth Timeline being created from Beerus erasing Zamasu.

Goku Black's time ring has an item reliant Immortality similar to Schrödinger's Cat Paradox.

Schrödinger's Cat Paradox is in layman's terms described like this:

- You have a cat in a box and you inject poison in the cat.

- Although the cat had died in one timeline, in another timeline that same cat lives on.

In this explanation for Goku Black were have the following similarities:

- The cat is Goku Black/Zamasu

- The box is the timeline

- The poison is Beerus erasing Zamasu

Beerus erased Zamasu in the past, but Goku Black was unaffected due to his Time Ring making him immune to changes in the past so he's quite literally every time the version of the cat that survives due to wearing the Time Ring.

By that the Cosmological scaling is as follows:

One Punch Man Cosmology : 3D-Universal to

4D - Universal+ to

4D+ - Multiversal+ with enough context in the future.

Dragon Ball Super Cosmology :

6D-Low Complex Multiversal (Each of the Universes)

7D - Baseline Complex Multiversal (All Universes+ Zeno's World)

8D - Baseline Complex Multiversal (With timelines)

Striking Strength/Attack Potency/Destructive Capacity :

Saitama :

His greatest feats are :

Serious Punch² which is anywhere from Stellar Level to Solar System in AP due to the calculations and mathematics behind it :

- First of all Saitama's Punch in the beginning of his fight against Cosmic Fear Garou is Planetary due to having statements that it would destroy Earth itself as stated by Blast:

In order to destroy Earth itself you need to exsert force equal to 2*10³² Joules :

Serious Punch² is the result of the force needed to destroy Earth but squared :

(2 * 10³²)² = 2² * 10⁶⁴= 4 * 10⁶⁴ Joules

Via VS Battle Wiki's calculations 34*10⁴⁹ Joules are the force needed in order to destroy multiple actual irl Solar Systems.

So due to that being his strongest feat, Saitama is Multi Solar System in Striking Strength and AP since his AP equals to his striking strength

Son Goku :

For Son Goku his striking strength is defined by his fight against Beerus in Battle of Gods.

Now before anyone comes here and tries to falsely Debunk it as being only Beerus' strength see the following scans :

First scan being Goku stating that he was planning on matching Beerus' strength by the third hit :

In Dragonball canceling out someone's attack requires you to clash with the opponent at the exact same angle and with the exact same force similar to Newton's laws of action and reaction.

That's on top of the fact that there are multiple people saying that SSG Goku and Beerus would destroy the entirety Universe 7 including but not limited to the Elder Kai and the narrator :

Mind you that the Narrator's words are both literally and figuratively "words of God" in terms of validity in Dragonball Scaling since they're literally words from the script writer Akira Toriyama himself.

Also just in case someone of you tries to debunk it via Death of the Author Fallacy, here's a video from my good friend called The Faxual Scaler debunking Death of the Author Fallacy :

Now just to give you some context real quick about it:

- Death of the Author is a book written by a philosopher that had criticized the roles of the Author and Reader.

- Death of the Author as a book is heavily frowned upon by a lot of philosophers and literacy professionals.

- Death of the Author can also be debunked by common logic by the following question: How the heck does a fan of any series that has myriads of obnoxious fanmade head cannons in order to explain things according to their biases knows more about a story than the LITERAL AUTHOR!?!!
Can't you just see that there's an obvious logic error in that way of thinking?

Conclusion: Death of the Author is a Bandwagon Fallacy made by a lot of people in order to invalidate Author's statements and gaslight other people and their beliefs about how high the verse scales or how things work within it.

Without any further delay since we've already scaled a Universe in Dragonball, Goku's actual scale is Infinite 6D or Low Complex Multiversal for terms of Durability, AP, DC and striking strength since in scaling they all increase in relation to one another.

Yeah... I'm sure that you can realise that Saitama is screwed if one of Goku's punches connect with him or even if one of Saitama's punches connected with Goku it'd only tickle him 💀

Now many of you will say that Goku would need SSG in order to defeat Saitama, but it's not entirely true since in the anime Goku had legitimately absorbed SSG in base making base Goku as strong as his SSG form in Battle of Gods as a grotesque lowball.

Now before anyone says that this is also out of context, news flash. It's not out of context in the slightest.

I'll give you some context in order to understand how it is consistent:

- Before obtaining Super Saiyan God, SSJ3 Goku got no diffed by a heavily suppressed Beerus.

- In SSG, Goku was fighting on equal terms with a loosely suppressed Beerus.

- During their fight Goku dropped out of SSG and gotten into the regular Super Saiyan form which is two tiers lower than Super Saiyan 3, the form he used against Beerus in their first fight.

- If Goku didn't absorb SSG in base Beerus would legitimately one shot or even worse flat out kill Goku with one of his attacks and Goku himself wouldn't state that he felt no energy drop the moment he turned back in a regular SSJ.

Conclusion: Goku absorbing SSG in base isn't an inconsistent bug, it's a feature.

Some other people may try to debunk it with another way by saying that Goku didn't absorb SSG in base due to the fact that he was still able to turn into an SSG, but for this people I have only one reply:

Why the heck do you think that they'd try to invalidate a form that they've just introduced?

Or are you too busy being biased and malding that you can't see how ludicrous your statements are?

Absorbing the power of a form in base doesn't invalidate the form since someone who has absorbed a form in base - like SSG in our current debate - until given enough context not head cannons to prove otherwise.

Now to the actual question, can Saitama physically overpower Goku if they came down to grappling or gripping?

Lifting Strength :

Lifting Strength is a way to determine how strong is a character physically so let's see who's stronger in raw strength between the two:

Saitama :

Saitama has some impressive Lifting Strength feats, the most impressive by far is destroying Io using only his fingertips :

Io is one of Jupiter's many moons with mass 1,4% that of the Earth so the fact that Saitama effortlessly tore the moon apart with just his fingertips is consistent given the fact that he can exsert enough force to destroy the earth given the calculations before.

Son Goku :

For Goku the calculations are different.

First of all Ki in Dragonball has heat :

Density and mass :

Source: Official Dragonball Website

Secondly in order to scale Goku's physical strength we'll have to use another destructive force in the verse known as Frieza.

Frieza in his first form with a power level of 530000 destroyed planet Vegeta, a planet that has 100 times the mass of the Earth, ten times it's gravity and 4,64 times it's size:

Irl Earth's mass is approximately a rounded 6 * 10²⁴ kg :

Earth as we've stated before needs to be struck with the force equal to 4 * 10³⁴ N in order to be destroyed.

The fun starts when you count the fact that the Earth in Dragonball is much bigger than the Earth in real life since the irl Earth's diameter is 12756,2 km wide whilst Dragonball's Earth's diameter according to the Daizenshuu World Map is a whopping 80395,5 km wide :

Which makes Dragonball's Earth 6,3 TIMES BIGGER than IRL Earth.

This means that the Dragonball's Earth would need 6,3 times the force that irl Earth needs in order to be destroyed which equates to :

6,3 * (4 * 10³⁴) = 25,2 * 10³⁴ Newtons of force or

[(25,2 * 10³⁴) * (80395,5 * 10³)]/10 = (3190,5 * 10³⁷)/10 =
3190,5 * 10³⁶ Joules of Force which is the equivalent of a Large Planetary Feat by VSBW AP stat calcs.

Now planet Vegeta is 4,64 times bigger than this monstrosity which makes the Joules needed to destroy it into:

4,64 * (3190,4 * 10³⁶) = 14803,5 * 10³⁶ Joules, still a Large Planetary Feat

That feat was done by first form Frieza with a finger in order to destroy planet Vegeta.

Still don't believe me? Keep reading then.

Base Goku in Namek Saga had effortlessly slapped away a blast from Final Form Frieza.

Final Form Frieza's power level is 120000000 :

A small paragraph, Power Levels in Dragonball are exponential increases, we know it from the fact that King Piccolo who had a power level of 280 in early Dragonball was no diffing a Kid Goku with a power level of 260 and nearly killed him.

If the power levels of Dragonball were linear as some downplayers a 20+ additive increase wouldn't make the fight that one sided.

Frieza in Final Form is a rounded 226,5 times stronger than his First Form by simply dividing his Final Form's power level with his First Form's so he excerted 226,5 times the amount of power needed to destroy Dragonball's Planet Vegeta which is:

226,5 * (14803,5 * 10³⁶) = 3352993 * 10³⁶ Joules or approx 3,352 * 10³⁹ Joules which according to VSBW is a Dwarf Star Level Attack and Namek Saga Base Goku legit swatted it to the side with no Effort :

Yeah... even Namek Saga Base Goku is stronger than Saitama in raw strength, let alone BoG and upper versions of Goku.

Now in order to debunk any problems or inconsistencies that people bring up as Copium intakeses due to bandwagon Fallacies about "Super being inconsistent according to their biases".

The rebunk is simple, Ki Control. With Ki Control characters in Dragonball can control their strength in relation to their ki output and go from weak enough to be able to be scratched by bullets to strong enough to bust open entire Multiverses.

So in terms of overall strength, Saitama gets annihilated badly by DBS Goku, but the question that remains lingering is one, can Saitama dodge the beat down or will he get beaten before he's capable of reacting to what's happening?

Speed :

Saitama :

Saitama scales far higher than Flashy Flash who's confirmed FTL in his fight with Platinum and Awakened Garou due to creating constellations as they fought :

Earth's and Jupiter's distance is 968 million kilometres at their furthest, antidiametrical separation which isn't even a Lightyear in diameter, meaning that Saitama's overall speed is :

Traveling Speed : FTL+

Speed Via Hax : Low MFTL via Time Travel.

Combat Speed : FTL+ (due to fighting and during the fight getting faster and stronger than CF Garou)

Reaction Speed : FTL+ (Due to reacting to CF Garou's attacks)

Son Goku :

In order to scale Goku's overall speed we have to remember one of Vegeta's Statements in Namek Saga, specifically in his fight with Cui :

That statement shows that strength and speed in Dragonball increase in relation to one another so essentially that means that Goku from Namek Saga and up has the following Speed Feats:

Namek Saga : FTL+ to Low MFTL due to reacting to Frieza's Death Beams in base that are light speed or faster than light (FTL) according to the Manga :

Cell Saga : Baseline MFTL via reacting to Perfect Cell who's vastly stronger than Frieza

Buu Saga : MFTL+, being vastly superior to SSJ2 Gohan and far faster than the Kaioshins who even the weakest of them could literally speed blitz and one shot a Fully Powered Final Form Frieza with as much as a ki blast before the latter reacted to it.

Battle of Gods Saga : Infinite Speed, due to scaling to the shockwaves that his and Beerus' strength produced. The shockwaves were capable of traversing the entire 6D macrocosm of Universe 7 in seconds, meaning that they basically traversed infinite distance in finite time. The basis of Infinite Speed.

Via Hax : Instantaneous Speed via Instant Transmission.

This Speed scaling minus the Speed Via Hax scale are also applicable to Goku's traveling speed, reaction speed and combat speed btw.

If anyone comes and tries to debunk Infinite Speed SSG Goku know that I can literally debunk Saitama to Relativistic+ Speed with two scans :

One being the proof that Theory of Relativity exists in OPM:

Second being that speed in Theory of Relativity can't be higher than the speed of light :

Yeah.... Saitama is literally slower than a snail compared to even Base Goku, there wasn't any need to bring SSG Goku or God forbid anything higher since Saitama would literally appear motionless in front of them.

Skill :

By Skill in Scaling we mean the combat prowess of someone in the form of either weapon mastery or martial arts.

In the case of this debate it's mainly the latter due to being basically a hand on hand combat.

Skill and Fighting Prowess goes to Goku who was trained in the way of Martial Arts from infancy under eight masters first from Grandpa Gohan to the Turtle Hermit Master Roshi, then from Korin to Mr Popo, then from Kami to King Kai and finally, from Merus to Whis.

This is known to anyone who had watched Dragonball from start to end at least once in their lives.

Battle IQ & IQ :

Saitama :

Saitama obviously gets the IQ since although Goku isn't entirely foolish, Saitama has more IQ than he does due to being a businessman before deciding to be a hero.

Son Goku :

Son Goku is the undisputed winner in terms of Battle IQ between the two whilst Saitama was mainly bulldozing through his opponents in OPM due to his narrative as the MC in the end of their journey, his Battle IQ pales in comparison to Goku.

Goku in comparison to Saitama is a well disciplined martial artist, forged in the ways of martial arts with a lot of victories and losses under his belt and a lifetime of fighting experience in his body, mind and soul.

Most of his fights weren't only won via brute strength, but through a combination of unwavering commitment, knowledge of martial arts, strategic planning and exploiting the obvious weaknesses or bad decisions that his opponents have to his advantage.

Abilities and Hax :

I ain't gonna lie to you this is going to be quick :

Saitama :

Superhuman Physiology
Statistics Amplification
Time Travel
Potential Realization
Limitless Potential
Potential Acknowledgement
Self Sustainace I
Vacuum Adaptation
Temperature Immunity
Reactive Power Level
Reactive Evolution
Limit Transcendence
Shockwaves
Psychic Immunity
Immense Stamina

Son Goku :

Superhuman Physiology
Alien Physiology
Statistics Amplification
Statistics Decrease
Potential Realization
Limitless Potential
Potential Acknowledgement
Temperature Immunity
Reactive Power Level
Reactive Evolution
Limit Transcendence
Transformation
Erasure
Ressurection
Self Resurrection
Psychic Immunity
Teleportation
Durability Negation
Mimicry
Environmental Adaptation
Chi Manipulation
Transcendant Chi Manipulation
Immense Stamina

Yeah... Goku stomps even in the Hax and abilities department, not mentioning that they scale higher since his AP and DC is far higher.

(A/n : See you in part 3 where we finalize the results and get to the conclusion)