Most of the team passed a restless night. Camie and Bakugo texted back and forth about the upcoming day. Momo and Shoto did the same thing, though for less time.

Shine spent a substantial amount of the night praying or singing to calm her nerves, so she wouldn't think about how risky their plan was...and she did finally sleep for a while.

Wally was bit more used to resting under pressure and actually didn't stay up too late.

At the LOV's hideout, it was different.

Mirko sat on the couch because she didn't want to go to her room and feel like she was shut in. She dozed off and on there, but it was doubtful anyone else fared any better.

The next day was just one of agonized waiting.

Mirko didn't go to work in case they got the signal to move out at any moment.

But Shine insisted on herself and the kids doing their regular activities and not wasting the whole day. "I'd go crazy if I did nothing," she said.

She visited Dabi too. He wasn't doing so well with the confinement and lack of variety. It made him depressed.

Towards evening, with still no word from Karen, the group reconvened in the same restaurant as before... If ninja had been there since, they had left no trace of their presence.

"She's probably going to flake out," Hawks said cheerfully, "Can't trust these people."

He only got dirty looks in return for his optimism.

Shine did relate the conversation with All Might to the core, including Shigaraki. Though she left out several details.

"So I don't think we're in trouble," she said to the kids.

"At least that's one less thing to worry about," Shoto sighed.

"The ex-number one piece of trash interfering with you is the last thing we need right now," Shigaraki commented.

"Don't talk about All Might that way," Bakugo warned.

"Don't start," Shine warned even more intensely, "Not the time for petty arguments. The whole thing is a big mess right now."

"I thought the League liked All Might now." Shoto was confused. "Because of Stain."

"That's Spinner," Shigaraki replied carelessly.

"Yeah, they don't all agree." Mirko picked at the lining of the chair she was leaning on. "It's kind of confusing."

"But if they don't agree, how do they work together?" Shoto said.

"Because they have better teamwork/compromising skills than you and the other heroes do," Shine said dryly, "Believe it or not, it's actually pretty common to work with people who don't agree with you outside of heroism...and even there, come on, would you say you think just like all your classmates?"

"It just seems like a big difference," Shoto said.

"Hmm, well on that note, can you give us a moment?" Shine said.

The kids moved off obediently, though they were puzzled.

"I know you won't like me asking this," Shine said to Shigaraki, "but I have to know, if ever in the future, All Might did want to discuss things with you, would you do it?"

Shigaraki tensed. "No. And don't mistake the fact that we've moved on to bigger problems for being okay with All Might, Likstar. I don't know how you can stand to even work with that b-----d if you really understand the problems with the world."

"Perhaps I understand them too well to blame one person for them," Shine said gently, "but believe me, I do find it frustrating to work with All Might. But I was simply asking if you'd be open minded enough to actually hear his side for once. I mean, have you ever really talked to him?"

"Why would I?"

"Why are you so sure he's at fault if you don't know him at all?" Shine said.

She was really ticking him off now. It was obvious from his whole demeanor. Wally wondered if it is was smart to do this now...but then again, they might not get another chance.

"I know enough," Shigaraki said.

"Because your Master told you," Shine said.

"Yes."

"And you also blame All Might for AFO's arrest," Shine said.

"Of course. Who else's fault would it be?" Shigaraki said mechanically.

"How about AFO's for starting a fight to begin with?" Wally jibed, but Shigaraki glared at him.

 "Watch it, West."

"Tomura, you threatening Wally is like a spark plug threatening a lightning bolt," Shine said flatly, "a waste of your time and bad for your health. Maybe you should watch it. If we don't threaten you, you could return us the favor."

"Then don't talk about such inane, infuriating subjects," Shigaraki shot back.

"Oh, grow up," Shine said, "Can't whine your way of it always. Why can you talk about all the other problems like a normal, intelligent person, but not this one? Am I expecting too much?"

She hit a nerve there.

"All right, you want to talk about it?" Shigaraki's tone did not bode well for him being open-minded. "Fine. All Might created this society of complacency--"

"You've said that before," Shine cut him off.

"Don't ask and then interrupt!" Shigaraki was mad.

"Sorry, but this feels like you're insulting my intelligence now. Do you think I don't remember?" Shine said dryly, "What I wanted to know was a personal thing All Might had done that you could point out as being so very bad--and thus explain why you would not bother to talk to him, if in some odd turn of events, the chance was available. Because, you know, if you're just afraid to know the truth because it might prove you wrong, I think I have my answer about it."

"I'm not afraid of that," Shigaraki said.

"Then go on. Do tell." Shine gestured, waiting.

A long silence while Shigaraki tried to think of something. Other than All Might fighting the League, though, all he thought of was what AFO told him...and he knew better than to use the League as an example. Even he knew by now Shine would turn that on him immediately.

It was becoming clear he didn't really have an answer...and that made him angrier. He began to scratch nervously.

"Why do you always want to talk about unpleasant subjects?" he griped.

"Why are you so afraid to talk about them?" Shine replied.

"Stop it."

"Let's not push him too much," Wally said to Shine, "He doesn't know. This would just be bullying."

"It's okay," Shine agreed, "I already have plenty of reason not to like All Might's actions for myself. I was just curious about yours. But let me guess, you can just tell he's not a good guy."

Mirko stared at the ceiling. "What's with the salt about All Might?" she said lazily, "I mean, I know that Symbol of Peace stuff is annoying as h---, but other than that, he's just doing his job. Why do the two of you have a problem with him?"

"Oh, well, I do think AFO might have a point that All Might creates problems," Shine said, "I mean, we all know that it's really AFO, not you." She glanced at Shigaraki. 

He scowled. "I know it's true."

"What I find so cuttingly ironic is the real reason you should resent All Might is not the reason you do resent him," Shine said blandly, "In fact, I doubt it's ever occurred to you. But you resent him for this vague reason that people are complacent because he always smiles or whatever. I completely agree that people who look the other way because heroes are around are cowards, but for that, I'd consider All Might a product of the system too. But, interestingly enough, you're not digging deep enough there. It's not just All Might--it was his predecessor too."

Shigaraki had not forgotten that Shine had told him about Nana already, but he didn't want to talk about it.

"I don't care who did what," he said.

"But it's far more interesting than you think," Shine said, "because the person who created All Might's predecessor was, in fact, AFO."

She had his interest now.

Mirko sat up. "What?" she said.

"Well, he doesn't care." Shine knew when to bait the hook. "So I guess I won't bother going into it right now. Maybe later."

"What are you talking about? How could you make such an accusation?" Shigaraki said.

"I've talked to both sides, that's how," Shine said, "I get info from All Might, which he didn't know I would ever be able to tell you, and then I got info from you, and some I guessed. And I got more info from a third party I won't disclose for safety reasons. I've got a good handle on the situation by now. AFO does like his complex revenge plots."

Shigaraki sat up. "Explain."

"But you don't want to hear it," Shine said innocently.

"D--- it, stop doing that. You want to say it, don't you? So just say it," Shigaraki said.

"Fine." Shine nodded at Wally like "how about that?"

He gave her a weak, uncertain smile.

"Without too much detail, I'll tell you this much," Shine said, "and you can depend on it, I wasn't told this in order to tell you but just in order to help piece it together. I'm going to tell you because I think you deserve to know, not to be a snitch: Anyway, AFO used to have a brother a long time ago."

"What?" Shigaraki did not know this.

"Hmm," Shine said, "Did he never mention that to you? I'm sure there was some kind of record on it, lost to time by now, no doubt. The brother was weak and sickly though, not like AFO, who was already strong, from what I gathered. AFO was a powerful man back then, but his brother and him did not see eye to eye. We don't know the details. How could we? Suffice it to say, AFO eventually gave his brother a quirk."

Wally wondered how far she would go here.

"By force," Shine added.

That got a bit more of a reaction.

"I don't believe that," Shigaraki said.

"Well, to be fair, I don't have details from AFO, but that's what's believed," Shine said, "You can suspend judgment if you wish. The point is, after that happened, the younger brother vowed to take AFO down. But he decided to wait, to pass on his mantle to someone else, and so he did, and then they, realizing they could not succeed either, passed it on to another, and it went down though 8 people. Nana was the 7th, and All Might was the 8th."

She was staying just shy of explaining OFA, and it was unlikely they could guess it. Passing down a mission was one thing, not unusual, but a quirk was a whole 'nother, and she knew it.

If All Might chose to explain OFA to Shigaraki on his own, should he ever get the chance, that would be his call. Shine had no intention of doing that for him. While it wouldn't make any difference to Shigaraki, it would be breaking her promise not to share the secret of it.

She considered this no more than what Shigaraki had a right to know, as part of the whole mess.

"It's funny how enemies are often closely linked," she commented, as no one was saying anything, "AFO created All Might in a very odd sense, and so, in another, all All Might and his predecessors did links back to AFO."

She knew that would infuriate Shigaraki, but she was not sure how much.

At first he didn't show it. He couldn't even wrap his mind around it. But he scratched more and more frantically.

Mirko shot Shine a look like "I think you broke him."

Finally Shigaraki did say something. "That's a lie."

"I wouldn't panic yet," Shine said calmly, "I don't mean that AFO is directly responsible for anything. Everyone has their own choice, do they not? It depends on how you choose to see the ripple effect. What do you think, Tomura? Who is to blame for All Might's actions?"

Now that she'd laid it out for him, of course he would take that escape. "All Might, clearly. It's not Master's fault, even if what you said was true."

"I would not lie to you about it," Shine said, dead serious, "and I have never lied to you. You know that. You've seen me tested. So if this is true, then we agree it's stupid to blame AFO for All Might's career choice."

"Yes, that is true." Shigaraki seemed to feel better. "It's a strange coincidence, but that's all."

"Indeed." Shine knew she'd set her trap well now. "And it's just as strange that you blame All Might for people's complacency, when all he's ever done is tell people to be heroes."

Shigaraki stopped scratching long enough to stare at her in bewilderment. "Huh?"

"If you can agree with me that AFO's original intentions have been misconstrued by what followed them," Shine said, "then it's not a huge leap at all to think All Might's intentions could be misconstrued by his fans and followers also, is it not?  And if, as you seem to think, we have our own choices to make about what to do with what we're given, then was it not simply everyone else's choice not to take action, and All Might cannot be held responsible for them?"

Shigaraki was not used to critical thinking, and this was making his head hurt trying to follow her, but he was mad enough now to put in the effort...and he was finding himself backed into a corner. Without retracting his statements, what could he say now?

Mirko was grinning hugely at how neatly Shine had done that...and also wondering if Shigaraki would just go off on her for it. This had to be taxing his level of emotional maturity to its limit.

Finally, Shigaraki seemed to decide defending AFO was more important, so he said very grudgingly, "It might be true they had their own choice, but they still made it because of All Might."

"Who made his because of his predecessor, who made hers because of AFO." Shine didn't let it go. "And so the cycle continues. You're angry with me right now, aren't you?"

"Right now? I want to tear you to pieces." Shigaraki was brutally honest.

Wally put a hand on Shine's arm. But she didn't seem afraid. 

"Because I'm right," she said with maddening calm.

"Because you're--insufferably smug!" Shigaraki said.

"I am smug often, but right now, I'm not really smug so much as interested to see if you're going to be a hypocrite right now." Shine saw no point in not being direct. He didn't get nuance.

Shigaraki gripped the edge of his chair till it started to crack.

"Dude, that's property damage we'll have to pay for," Wally said.

Shigaraki let go of it, looking murderous. "Shut up."

"You think you're going to scare us with that?" Shine laughed at him, "I admire you more when you try to use reason. Threats will not work on people who can block your quirk, will they? Find a different way to fight back or accept defeat."

"You shut the frick up, Likstar," Shigaraki snapped, "I see you got me backed into corner on purpose. I'm not stupid."

"I'm glad you see that. I find it encouraging," Shine said.

"You're just mocking me to make it worse," Shigaraki said.

"I assumed you wouldn't appreciate me calling you out for having a poorly founded argument based on assumptions you made without ever fact checking," Shine said, "Which to you is not important because you think all that matters is hate, not the intentions behind it, but the tricky thing about hating without a cause is that it falls rather flat on inspiring other people to hate along with you. I'm doing you a huge favor here by pushing your buttons. How else would you convince anyone? And frankly, if you can't even defend your deepest hatred to me, who will not exploit you for it, what chance do you have on a truly cruel opponent? Does it ruffle you to be exposed like this? I hope it does. At least then it shows you care a little bit about looking ridiculous."

Shigaraki stared at her.

"She's got me figured out," he muttered to himself, like he'd forgotten he was speaking out loud.

Mirko almost choked in her effort not to laugh aloud at that little footnote.

[Btw, was my favorite line from Shigaraki ever since the show started. Say what you will about the dub--that was hilarious, and the actor's delivery was flawless.]

Shine hid a smile too at him being so careless.

If Shigaraki had hated Shine as much as the others, he probably would have gotten violent at this point, at least in the past, but being that Shine had done a lot of favors for the League, and still was, he knew better than to lash out at her any other way except in words.

And knowing that, he suddenly felt kind of exhausted from this argument.

"I don't want to talk about this anymore," he said aloud.

"I know," Shine said, "but that's the easy way out. You're not being fair to me, are you? If I beat you, you ought to acknowledge it. That's just being a good sport."

"Why would I care about that?"

"Because you know I would do it if the positions were reversed. I hope you do beat me sometime, actually, but if I'm going to be a good sport about it when it happens, I'd expect you to be also," Shine said.

"So, what, I admit that you are right about things tying together?" Shigaraki grumbled, "I don't know why it matters. I don't need a reason to hate All Might other than I don't like him."

"I guess not," Shine said, "but if so, that's all it boiled down to."

"So what?"

"So, I'll stop taking you seriously," Shine said.

"What? Shut up." Shigaraki got mad again. "You think that's a reason to underestimate me?"

"I'm sorry, but do you really think I would ever be intimidated by you if you're that petty?" Shine laughed, "You can't use your quirk on me, remember? Aside from raw power and spite, what do you have to threaten me with? Become a real threat by learning to reason around things, and I might be afraid. But then, if you just don't care, then that's all there is to it. Stay at that small level, then. It's no matter to me, is it?"

She was a genius, Mirko thought. That would goad him to try harder...

Now that she was watching this, Mirko was starting to get why Shine did this. Since she didn't care if people got mad at her, she would use their anger to awaken their wish to prove her wrong, and that would make them argue until they came to see what their own position was.

It's what worked on Mirko herself, often enough, but now she felt like she was on the next level, watching the scrubs try to learn the last one, because it was easy to see it when it wasn't happening to you.

Oddly enough though, she didn't really feel disgusted with Shigaraki for being this bad at having a goal. It was kind of sad, really.

Shigaraki himself found Shine's logic hard to argue with... Why should she worry about him? He wasn't totally oblivious to the fact that Shine used reason and people's motivation to trick them into doing what she wanted--or into losing. She was the master at it, and she'd never lost, in any significant way. It was true, to pull of the kind of things she did, he ought to be able to do what she did...but he didn't know the first thing about it.

Ah, she was trying to help him in her own odd way. She knew All Might was dumb, but also that he couldn't explain it, and so she was trying to show him that.

It was sort of like how Master was.

Shigaraki didn't stop to think how insulted Shine herself would have been by that comparison.

[While on the surface they may seem similar, I would point out that Shine's goal is to get Shigaraki to think for himself and snap out of it, and she normally is trying to get people to realize what they really think. AFO wants people to think what he wants them to. Shine leaves them free to decide what they want about her ideas, and AFO tries to spin everything so that his is the only real way to look at anything. It works even on All Might, if you watch season 3, and it most certainly works on the other villains.]

"I see," he said aloud, "This is one of your teaching tricks, isn't it?"

"Yes," Shine admitted, "but what you learn from it is up to you."

"Perhaps you have a point. I am not used to explaining things," Shigaraki admitted, "and it does not seem like most people care about it, but the opponents we've been facing do seem to take issue with it. I don't really care, though. But if you're so sure you can do better, why do you dislike All Might, then? If he's not at fault like you're saying, what's your reason?"

"Ah, now you're getting it." Shine smiled. "Good retort."

"Don't be patronizing, Likstar, just answer the question." Shigaraki didn't care for her praise.

"Geez, bite my head off a little more, why don't you," Shine shot back, "I shouldn't tell you just for that. Did I bite yours off when I asked you?"

Silence.

"I apologize..." Shigaraki said begrudgingly, "Satisfied?"

"Thank you, and to answer your question, I don't dislike All Might's personality," Shine said, "I do find it annoying at times, but to be honest, I find most people annoying at times. Who doesn't? I dislike people for different reasons, and flawed ideology is one of them. I'm not sure you will understand why I don't like him, even if I tell you--but it's that he made himself into a idol of sorts, and he didn't see a problem with that. And while he's not got a very high view of himself, he allows others to have that view of him, because he thinks it's for the 'greater good.' But it's not." She shook her head. "I think he's gotten to see up close how damaging that image can be to young, impressionable people, but it has yet to click that maybe the image itself was the problem, not just the application of it. Am I being too confusing?"

"Just a little, babe," Wally said, "I mean, I get it, but you're going to make smoke come out of their ears."

"Sorry, uh...how I can put it more simply...?" Shine thought. "All Might as a symbol is what I detest. All Might as regular Joe kind of guy is fine. The trouble is that he himself sees no problem with those two things being different. I've never liked people who are one way in public and another in private. Wally impressed me from the start because he is the same person in both."

"Hey, baby, I'd say the same about you," Wally said, "I mean, you could get away with major crap, going out of the world, but you're the same person in yours as everywhere else. I've seen it. And you know why we do that? Because what matters to us at all times is the kind of people we are, not what people need to look up to."

Mirko tilted her ears. "Say that again."

Shigaraki had forgotten she was there, but it didn't matter much, really.

"He said what what we care about is who we are, not who we appear to be," Shine said, "There's this little, tricky idea, and I've seen it in the church too, that how we present ourselves as in public should be the best version of ourselves, but with that comes the idea that we can get away with more in private...and there's a little truth in it. Sure, you can say things to family you can't say to strangers, but the key there is to say it with just as much goodwill then as you say something nice to a stranger. Teasing your siblings can be just as kind or good-natured to them as being polite to the lady on the bus is to her, because they understand us better. I'm sure, Rumi, you know that you can say things to Ren you can't say to anyone else."

"Oh, sure," Mirko agreed.

"So it's not even a different person, then," Shine said, "but I've know people, including my dad, who are nice to people who will only see them when they are being 'an example' but will be cruel and nasty to you at home and see no problems with it. If you abuse someone because you can, then you're only as good as you are then... I've not know All Might to be unkind in private, but I do know him to be pretty clueless about helping people on a personal level, and that to me undercuts the whole symbol of peace thing. But you see, that's a very different view for yours." She nodded at Shigaraki.

"I think it's the same," Shigaraki surprisingly said, "just you don't hate because of it. You're too soft for that."

"I'll take that as a compliment," Shine said, "but you mustn't think I couldn't hate people for being different than I want. It's all too easy, actually. My country at home is full of it."

[Isn't it social media? And you anime fans of all people know that.]

"It's a choice not to hate people because they don't align with our idea of good," Shine concluded, "After all, I know I don't always align with them either, and plenty of them hate me for it, and I don't like that. I treat people how I want to be treated though. We both do." She squeezed Wally's hand.

"Whatever you say about it, I still think you're too soft," Shigaraki declared, "Not much good in being able to see this stuff if you're just going to excuse it."

"You just don't understand love, Tomura," Shine startled him by saying, "You think we're excusing it, but we're not--love is just stronger than that. Stronger then people's flaws. 'Stronger than the walls that shut it in', to quote one of my own personal inspirations. [Corrie Ten Boom.] Love covers a multitude of sins, the Bible says. We choose love, and so we overlook the differences. C. S. Lewis once described love as something that 'sees through the enchantment but stays enchanted.' Someone who loves you will see you as you really are, and yet still believe the best of you."

She might as well have been speaking a foreign language for how much Shigaraki understood what she just said.

Mirko didn't know why hearing that made her feel kind of upset... Maybe it hit a nerve she'd been avoiding for a long time.

"But hey, I commend you," Shine changed the subject, "One thing I do like about the way you run this League is that it's not different at one time than another. Not that two sided image thing. I mean, sure, it's mostly because you can't act, but that's a plus in my book."

"Stop it." Shigaraki figured she was mocking him.

"I'm being serious," Shine said, "but we can stop talking about it. This has been a difficult conversation for all of us. Better not to push it."

"Hey, I think we'd have to end it anyway, babe." Wally nudged her. "I just saw something. Someone on the roof across from us, outside. I think it's the Karen."

They got up.

Mirko didn't have much time to think about all that, but she did think for a moment that it was truly amazing that Shine could really talk to anyone the exact same way. She'd have spoken the way she did to anyone, just as direct, just as patient. Her capacity to be kind to villains, even the worst, the same way she was to heroes, or even the kids, was what made her the oddest. Wally too.

It was like they just didn't see the differences between people the way others did.

[I know there was a lot of talking here, but I'm sure you can all see why it was important.

A lot of big decision moments are coming up for these characters.

And I also really liked this conversation too. Made the issue more clear to me, even as I was writing it.

But yes, we're finally getting into the action next chapter, so get ready!]