Okay this was originally supposed to be a Dumbledore only rant, but someone told me that apparently people don't like Chiron for the most outrageous reasons??? So yeah, I decided to include Chiron in this too so let's goooo!

Let's start off with Dumbledore...

Honestly, the way he was written was sooo confusing but I really don't like him 😐 He's really hard for me to understand, so what I'm gonna say below is all JUST MY OPINION!

I don't think he's evil like some fics depict him as, but he's definitely not a good guy. He's a grey character that leans more to the darker sider than the lighter side. He had good goal (defeating wizard Nazi overlord wannabe), but his methods were just really dark (and unbelievably stupid)

He is a huuuuge manipulator. Like genius level manipulator though there were some scenes where he did some stupid things (like how he talked to Harry after Sirius died). I feel like since day one he was planning on using Harry solely to defeat Voldemort and to see him as an important chess piece on the board. 

He dumped Harry with the Dursleys, knew about the abuse he was getting from them but didn't care because he was just supposed to be an important pawn to his plans to defeating Voldemort. Harry is a pawn, he shouldn't care for the wellbeing of a pawn especially since he was already aware that the Durseleys wouldn't go TOO far with their abuse. As long he Harry was still able to face Voldemort at the end, then he was fine with however he was treated back at home. 

But I feel like... he slowly started to care for him, which wasn't part of the plan. To me, it just sort of explains why he always did genuinely nice things for Harry, but then pushed him away and repeated the cycle. He just seemed like he was struggling to stick with the plan and push his grandfatherly feelings to the boy aside. It's the typical thing with most manipulators: feelings get in the way so it's best to get rid of them and not get attached to the pawn. Especially if that pawn is supposed to die at the end. 

So yeah, Dumbledore really tried hard to stop himself from caring any further for Harry because one, he's supposed to be just a pawn to him and two, he's a pawn that's going to die and Dumbledore already faced one too many losses to go through that again. 

Don't mistake this as me pitying the dude. Nope, I still hate him. I just really respect how manipulative he is and how well he controls his emotions (if my opinion of him is correct). He definitely uses people to his advantage like Snape (and no, you shouldn't pity Snape for being used too, he still sucks ass) and Harry, the two people he used the most.

Regardless of that, THE WAY HE TREATS HIS PAWNS ARE SO STUPID THOUGH??? I get that he's a manipulator and shouldn't care much for the wellbeing of the people he's using but he did NOT handle Harry right!

If I wanted to use someone from the very fucking start, I wouldn't leave them in an abusive home (and no, I don't care about the stupid blood wards, I'm sure there were other options). Dumbledore took too much of a risk with this because what if the abuse went too far? What if they starved Harry death? What if they neglected him so badly they left him in some store or whatever and he got kidnapped? He's not watching the house 24/7 so literally ANYTHING could've happened. 

I get that leaving Harry emotionally damaged would make him vulnerable enough for Dumbles to easily manipulate him, BUT THAT WAS TOO RISKY! The blood wards only protected him IF HE WAS HOME. If the Durseleys left the house, Death Eaters would've swooped right in and be like "hey make ur nephew leave the house so we can kill him" and they would've just gone "lol okay!" and bam, dead Harry.

Also if you were manipulating someone, you would want to be nice to them so they could trust you right??? REMEMBER HOW DUMBLEDORE TALKED TO HARRY AFTER SIRIUS DIED?!

He kept spouting bullshit like "you feel pain? that's great, that means ur still human :)" and "no no, harry, don't deny ur feelings, I know ur sad. You just lost someone you love very much, so you're in great agony, hurray :)" 

Like... WHAT?! 😭😭😭 WHO TALKS TO SOMEONE LIKE THAT? BRO, YOU'RE USING HIM, HE NEEDS TO TRUST YOU! DON'T PISS HIM OFF EVEN FURTHER BY SAYING WEIRD SHIT LIKE THAT! 

Honestly, he's like one of those mad scientists characters who don't understand feelings that well so they're just super smart, but they say stupidly insensitive shit while struggling with their own emotions like "what is this...? Am I... caring for someone...? How horrible!" 

Honestly if this is how he talks to his prized pawn after losing someone he loves, I wonder how he talked to Cedric's parents, two irrelevant people who aren't useful to him in his ultimate plan to take down Voldemort. Was he just like "I'm so sorry for your loss. Anyways, here's the money your son won before he died :)"

There's just WAAAAAY too many signs that Dumbles wasn't as nice as he seemed and I feel like the only reason it wasn't so obvious in the books was because it was written in Harry's POV (most of the time) and Harry had a very high opinion on Dumbledore. 

I don't think JKR ever intended to make Dumbledore a manipulator though? I tried to search it up and all I found were articles talking about Manipulator!Dumbledore theories and whatnot, so I really don't believe he was supposed to be a manipulator in the books, he just ended up that way on accident... I don't really know, but the signs were reeeeaaaally obvious that Dumbledore was sus. 

Anyways, I'm going to make a list and rant about all the stupid things he's done (and I'll try to do it in chronological order too):

- Not doing anything about Tom before he went into his Voldemort era. This annoys me sooo much because I really love psychology and how much psychologists and psychiatrist could help people... and then there's this kid with very obvious issues and then Dumbles, a teacher, just... doesn't do anything. He was already suspicious of this kid from the get-go and he never thought, "hmmm, why don't I give this boy some proper help"?!?!?! HE WAS A TEACHER! TEACHERS ARE SUPPOSED TO HELP THEIR STUDENTS! HE WAS AWARE THERE WAS SOMETHING WRONG AND JUST DID NOTHING! AND THE FACT THAT EVEN TOM WAS AWARE THAT THE TEACHER WAS SUS OF HIM WAS EVEN WORSE. LIKE MAN JUST HELP THE KID FOR FUCKS SAKE.

- Why didn't he go around telling people who Voldy really was??? He should've gone around telling people Voldy's real identity like "Lol his real name's Tom Riddle Jr, he likes anagrams, and he's a half-blood with internalized racism". Voldy would've gotten a lot LESS pureblood supporters if they had known from the get-go that they would be following some half-blood loser with a muggle father. 

- Why didn't this bitch use Legilimens to see who was the traitor 😐 Like, he has no problem doing that to Harry all the goddamn time, but during the one time where he NEEDED to use it, he just??? Didn't??? 

- He was the fucking Chief Warlock of the Wizengamot why didn't he uSE HIS POWER TO GIVE SIRIUS AN ACTUAL TRIAL??? OR LOOKED IN HIS HEAD TO SEE IF HE WAS THE ACTUAL TRAITOR???? CHIEF WARLOCK MY ASS, THIS WRINKLED BALLSACK DID NOTHING TO HELP WHAT THE ABSOLUTE FUCK

- Leaving a baby on a doorstep during the cold night 😑

- Leaving Harry with the DURSLEYS. Like, I get that the Blood Wards only worked on those who shared the same blood as Lily (so Petunia and Dudley), but he couldn't have just raised him on his own??? Harry would've been even EASIER for him to control and manipulate since he would be raising him since he was a baby. 

- Letting Snape teach. I know he only did that so he could watch over Harry when he started school, but omg... Snape was an AWFUL choice. He literally had no other use for him than to make him a teacher??? Seriously? I know for sure Dumbles got a lot of complaints about him, and he never thought to actually do something about Snape's abusive actions???

- Putting the stone... in the fucking school... 

- I don't know if this was true, but remember all those trials the trio went through in order to get the stone?? First it was the Devil's Snare, then the flying keys, the chess board, and the logic puzzle thingy??? Someone pointed out that those trials were suspiciously suited for the trio and Neville and was like "omg what if Dumbles put those trials there to test them?!" and like... I can actually believe that since he did send conveniently send Harry the invisibility cloak and Neville was the other possible chosen one so he might've set up the Devil's Snare to test him too... What do you guys think? 🤔

- This has nothing to do with Dumbles, but if you think about it... Harry really didn't need to go down there to protect the stone. In fact, him going there put the stone in even more danger. Quirrel and Voldy didn't know how the mirror worked, but when Harry came there, he practically gave them the stone 💀💀💀

- WHEN HE MADE SLYTHERIN THINK THEY WERE GONNA WIN THE HOUSE CUP LMAO. That was so unnecessary omg. Instead of saying "Slytherin won... but oh wait, there's more!" he could've just flat out counted all the points including the ones the trio and Neville won and just said "Gryffindor wins!" without letting the Slytherins have their mini celebration and then taking it away a second later. 

- The way he handled the Chamber of Secrets situation. Like yeah, he got booted out, but before that, he had a chance to call in the Aurors or some magizoologists and be like "Yo there's something out here petrifying my students, can you come in and help???" It was THAT easy but he just???

- He sent in Fawkes to help Harry instead of himself.... 😃👍

- Letting Hagrid be a teacher. Yes he's great and super sweet, but... he is not a good teacher, I'm sorry 💀 He didn't even get to finish his schooling before he was expelled. In my opinion, he should've been sent back to Hogwarts as a student instead of a teacher. I just feel like it would've been cooler that way. He's just way too blinded by his love for creatures that he doesn't really understand that some of the creatures he brings into class aren't safe for the students to be around. 

- Not protecting Sirius enough when he got captured. Like he was legit just gonna stand by and let him get the Dementor's Kiss if Harry and Hermione didn't time travel back to save him??? Seriously???

- He didn't notice??? That his own bestie was an imposter??? Dumbles and Moody were noted to be close, but he didn't realize how weird the dude was acting when Barty Jr was impersonating him??? Bruh, he's a fake friend 😠👎

- Didn't do anything for Harry during the Triwizard Tournament. I get that the Cup pretty much bound Harry to the tournament and he had no choice but to play, but he why couldn't he have just??? Made an announcement that Harry was innocent and someone had put his name in there??? Like the Slytherins and some of the Beauxbatons and Durmstrang people probably wouldn't have bought it, but at least he wouldn't have the Hufflepuffs, Ravenclaws, and RON shunning him!

- Putting Harry back... in an abusive household... after witnessing an EXTREMELY TRAUMATIC MOMENT?????? Whyyyyy couldn't he just let his friends and godfather contact him, what the absolute FUCK??? If he was worried about the letters being intercepted, then he could've just had to guards give it to him since he had people watching over him 24/7. HE DIDN'T HAVE TO LEAVE HIM FEELING COMPLETELY ABANDONED 🤬

- HIS STUPID "I'm going to avoid Harry" IDEA WTF WAS HE THINKING?!?!?! He honestly could've just gone straight up to him and be like "Harry I'm really sorry about this but I need to avoid you for some time because Voldy has this weird connection with your head. For our own safety, we should avoid speaking to each other. I'll find a way to break the connection soon, dw 💖" And bam, there you go! We wouldn't have had to deal with caps lock abuser Harry. 

- How he handled comforting Harry after Sirius died 💀 "Oh you feel sad??? That's great! You're human :)" and "Harry, don't deny how you feel. I know that your heart's ripping in two because you just lost all of your parental figures :)" and "Harry you can't leave the room cuz I gotta tell you my life story :)" 

I haven't gotten to Half-Blood Prince or Deathly Hallows yet so this was as far as I could go. These were all from the top of my head too, and there was no way I was gonna reread the book to find all the stupid stuff he did 💀

Now... I can finally move onto Chiron. 

I had to do a LOT of searches for this because I really couldn't find people hating on Chiron, but I did find one rant book that talked about him and a few Quora discussions, so here it goes. 

Honestly, their reasons for hating Chiron are very... stupid 💀

Lemme try and summarize it for you: 

They hate Chiron because they believe him to be like a horse version of Dumbledore. They think he's evil for raising child soldiers and never doing anything to help the demigods, he's just letting kids die, and letting them be used by the gods, etc etc. and yeah. 

First of all, Chiron is not training them to be child soldiers. That's what LUPA'S doing. What Chiron is doing is teaching the kids how to survive in the real world or when they go out on quests. Camp Half-Blood is solely for survival. What I found funny is that none of the people ever mentioned Lupa, who quite literally is raising child soldiers by instilling extremely toxic beliefs of being "strong" and a "soldier of Rome" and even goes so far as to eat those who she thinks are too weak.

But nooo Chiron's evil 🙄

The demigods of Camp Half-Blood only became child soldiers because Luke decided to express his ways of teenage rebellion by starting a whole ass revolution. But before that, they only concerned themselves over survival. 

Do you know what's going to happen if Chiron ever stops training the kids (aside from the kids dying because of the lack of training)? He gets fired, or maybe killed even. 

"cHiRon wOuLd NeVer gEt FirEd, he'S tOO iMpoRTanT" 

No, he actually isn't. 

Remember back in the Sea of Monsters? When Thalia's tree was poisoned, what did Zeus do? He fired Chiron. He had absolutely zero proof that Chiron poisoned her tree, he was just the closest thing he could point fingers at. He FIRED Chiron from the camp, and he had to leave. Then he had him replaced with Tantalus. 

Do you see it now? Chiron is replaceable to the gods. He's not important to them at all! If he does some worker's strike, or if he rebels against the gods because of how they treat their kids, he's SCREWED. He's only immortal if he continues to train heroes. If he doesn't, goodbye immortality and goodbye life. Once he's gone, the gods could easily replace him with another trainer and they might not be as nice as Chiron. 

This man does not have a choice, BUT to just keep training these kids. He's doing his absolute best to keep them alive. And unlike with Dumbledore, he actually has a valid reason as to why he can't always be there to help the demigods out. When it comes to quest, he absolutely cannot interfere. When it came to the whole Greeks vs Roman things, it's canon that he and Lupa swore an oath years ago to keep their existence a secret. If he broke the oath and told the Greek demigods before they could find out on their own, he gets punished. 

Also, DO YOU REMEMBER HIM IN THE BATTLE OF MANHATTAN??? He gathered the party ponies and other reinforcements to help them out, HE JOINED THEM IN THE BATTLE, AND ATTACKED KRONOS, HIS FATHER! If he was truly evil, he wouldn't have bothered to help them at all! 

There really isn't any reason to hate Chiron. He tries to help when he can, and when he can't, he has a very valid reason for not helping (death, punishment, breaking the oath, etc). 

Anyways, Chiron > Dumbledore.